. I really only wear white, which is why we launched with this. It wont make them extremely soft, but should help in the process. I have a pair of Chelsea boots by Sanders, bought at John Rushtons. They're also very flexible to work with. The best made, best value quality shoe on the market is Joseph Cheaney by a country mile. For the price of a brand new AE Id rather get a pair of C&J or Carminas for a little more. Sure David. * **Midas Bootmaker Landshaker** 42EU excellent fit with room to wiggle toes in medium socks. does not really mean quality will be consistent. on that curve of diminishing returns. He knows the market back to front and is a lovely gent. Alexander 9E/9.5D: Excellent fit when worn sockless. Lots of toe room and good heel feeling. However, I continue to buy loafers from Allen Edmonds because they sell shoes that come in 4-5 widths, so its easy for someone with narrow feet to find loafers that fit and wont fall off. Then last but not least, my longwing pair (not available anymore I'm afraid). Benzein Parang 42: Its a bit short, but wearable. Way too narrow and painful all around, last too tapered for my taste. Gaziano & Girling MH71: UK 11.5 F. Gaziano & Girling GG06: UK 11.5 F. Gaziano & Girling KN14: UK 11.5 F. Gaziano & Girling DG70: UK 11.5 F. Gaziano . Just make sure Trickers does not end up too chunky for you. I agree that they might be a touch conservative (although they do now have more stylised lasts compared to a few years back), and that youre less likely to get more interesting leathers like museum calf or patinated. Easily the best of the budget shoes and whilst they dont match Crockett and Jones, they are not a million miles away. I dont know anybody who owns a Mont Blanc wallet, but I know plenty of people who own Mont Blanc pens, and I dont see that ever changing. Carmina is the best of the Mallorca-based shoemakers (which includes Meermin and TLB Mallorca), but is more expensive than either Meermin or Spier & Mackay by about double. Please check Rafal's thread and patronize a true custom maker. The point about corrected Vs full grain leathers is not a meaningful distinction. I will look for a similar style shoe latest next year. As Im a women who is looking for well made leather shoes, I have even smaller heels than the male feet in comparison to feet length. My most desired English brand is C&J. They claim it will still last as long and that the defects are just cosmetic, but still, it may not be what you expect. However, always be careful about brands that give the impression their leather is the same quality as the top makers. I still end up with shoes that are markedly higher quality than the vast majority of whats sold, and the more reasonable prices allow me to accumulate a broader range of options. I used DT cushioned boot socks at the time. I have Meermin boots and happy with the quality. By far the highest quality of any of the brands on this list (and in my opinion, the most elegant lasts). Barrie: 10D (I might be able to pull 9.5 with thin socks), 9.5 E, Tuesday split toe boots (no last name): 9.5, Borneo: 42 EU (snug fit with plenty room for toe to wiggle with medium socks), Kujang: 42.5 EU (snug fit with medium socks), 325: 9.5 UK (had to re-purchase just to recall my size), 365: 9 UK (snug with medium socks, would probably be clown looking if I went 9.5, but who knows), Military: 44 EU (had to throw thick socks for this, but no way I could pull 43, the weirdest fitting last Ive ever had), 4497: 9.5 UK fitting 6 (could probably pull 9 UK or same size but 5 fitting instead), 2020: 9.5 (with medium socks it fit snug). Ive found having slowly worked my way up the chain that in terms of value for money, its Cheaney, Trickers and Alfred Sargent which have ultimately paid off. "But at the same time, I do think you get better value now for a 200 shoe than you did 10 years ago, despite inflation, because theres so much more competition. The soles on the Trickers town shoes wear down quickly. Great read Simon. Update: had to take the leather insert out, just couldn't deal with how shallow the toe box is. Left foot was okay. For example, I dont really care about super fine handwork on a shirt. Please check Rafal's thread and patronize a true custom maker. Unlined Carmina loafers. Everyone in London should visit John and ask for his advice on shoes. Please take a look. You found 1 size in that last worked for you though? Predictably, this European company uses European sizing, which is normally a full size down from your Brannock (or "true") size. So all in all a shoes that looks good, but not a feel good shoe. Thin socks preferred due to somewhat narrow toe box. My understanding is that AE is below the likes of Crocketts in terms of make, but thats based on the input of people like Jesper who know more about them than I do. If anything, I would say last and design are the least obvious things they are the easiest ones to mimic. Im really looking forward to the promised article on TLB Artista. Below that, there are smaller differences created by new entrants to the market. Very nice article. It was snug, but not tight, and I could tell that they would fit perfectly once the sole settles. Yes they do take a while to break in, but once they were, they ended up being just as comfortable as all my other GYW shoes. Thank you for this listing Simon. The quality of the leather is identical. So far I remained unconvinced but then again I dont know any better. The Yanko felt very similar to the TLB if a bit softer overall (this makes sense as the founder of TLB used to be with Yanko). The only major disadvantage compared to Goodyear is that the stitches come through on the inside of the shoe. Trickers are by no means accessible by price point (especially in the US) but get a pair from the outlet and you still have a pair of tanks that will last you for at least a decade. Similar articles on suits, jackets, shirts etc are desperately needed. Heel is a bit wider than I'd like when new but does break in. It takes days to sift through the carmina thread to even know relatively what size to buy. (Vibergs cxl is different to Thursday boots cxl.). 65 last 10D: Bad fit. I think I could also safely do this last in in 9.5, but I'm not trying to wear my boots as tight as possible. I would also add that instead of trying to prove potential readers wrong, you might accept criticism gracefully and might have more success by doing more research and improving your writing. A lot of influencers will also swear that it is box calf, which goes a long way to show either their incompetence or lack of integrity. Do you think that this pair are too smart: https://www.afinepairofshoes.co.uk/products/berwick-1707-penny-loafer-9628-dark-brown-suede?variant=19309209288766&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google%20Shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5ZCblaOs6gIVdBPTCh32aAttEAEYASABEgKcGvD_BwE, Would this pair be better suited: https://www.carminashoemaker.com/penny-loafers-brown-suede-80113. Pretty good fit, but I need a kilty for some of the volume while new, will probably break in more and be able to be cinched down better over time. I dont really David the piece is deliberately written by someone else, not me, as its not an area I have that much experience with. I would also recommend Thomas George Collection (based in Melbourne) and Crownhill Shoes (Spain), two quality brands who sit at the same price range of Morjas/Velasca and they do great bang for the bucket GW Shoes. You can use these comfortable shoes to show up appropriately for most events, in the most positive ways possible. The heel stiffener is a piece of the internal structure of the shoe, which sits inside the heel cup. They look nice to me, but as I have only been buying shoes from British shoemakers, I am unsure whether their last may look showy or unusual comparison. Even so, I do believe that the Meermins are the best value-for-money among the shoes mentioned. I feel much less tired in my feet after a long day, and if one have a bit problematic feet it will be an even bigger difference. I have been wearing several pairs for ~18 years without an issue besides replacement of a couple of degraded rubber heel soles. He is, at the moment, offering something special forum readers. Its a long time since Ive worn shoes at that price level, and I simply have no frame of reference. But now I can confidently say this was the right choice and it is worth breaking that arch in to get fit and support of this level. Ive gradually moved more towards the Handgrade products, though not entirely, as the range of styles is more limited. Churchs is particularly egregious in this respect, given the quality (though, sometimes to my regret, their 173 last fits me like a glove in a UK 12E). Ive undergone a career change and offices in the US have become more and more lax about dress standards, even prior to 2020. I found it a source of much misinformation. And in pictures I can see a difference in appearance, at least in terms of shape and design, but I am not sure if there is much of a difference elsewhere (I get that bespoke and such will fit nicer). In the end I find both brands run small and you rather need half a size or for Bobbies an entire size larger than what you would have with Santoni for example. The former you appreciate in the shoes over time. Ive tried Lobb, G&G and EG and have notice better uppers but not an increase in comfort compared to C&J handgrade that to me, are the sweet spot of the English shoe made in Northampton at a sensibly lower prices than the top makers. My next purchase would probably be one from G&Gs classic collection, but I can hardly justify buying another shoe when I have 2 brand new pairs (another Meermin and Trickers) which remain unworn due to quarantine. Cnes (above), for example, has been exhibiting in various fairs around Europe, looking for retailers, and is very nicely made, with a bevelled waist and otherwise refined make. G. F. G. . The English brands at this price level are Loake (1880 range, above) and Barker, both of whom make their uppers in Asia to cut down on costs. In terms of value I would say CJ handgrade. I wear 9EE in AE (65 last) and want to try carminas. On an industry level, theres also more variation among the Spanish brands, not least because a lot of them are younger, changing, and trying to fit into an increasingly competitive market. She tried Orbans but they were stiff as hell. The equivalent shoes are both online currently for 400 each. Interested to hear your thoughts if one abstracts from the usual price mark-up due to branding etc. Allen Edmonds Sizing to Carmina & Meermin Those that have Allen Edmonds and carmina or meermins, what size do you wear in AE compared to the others? The two brands are roughly the same level of make, with the price difference largely coming down to costs of labour in the UK and Spain. Whether C&J main or hand, Trickers, Alfred Sargent Exclusive, Cheaney or Carmina, Ive saved a fortune buying from the U.K. every time with no VAT, fair shipping and often times on terrific sales due to COVID and needing to move their inventory. No stretch sir. Great Stone Alexander 8.5D: Mostly great fit but too much heel slippage. Most of my shoes are Crockett & Jones because of the great customer service and the consistent quality. Not a thick sock last. I am a little biased here because I have had these for longer than any other pair on this list, so they are more broken in, and the last happens to fit my foot better than any but the C&J 348 too. I have a review of a pair of them here on Shoegazing: https://shoegazing.com/2016/08/12/review-crownhill-shoes-the-stewart/. I find that you almost always get what you pay for when it comes to goodyear welted shoes and both of these shoemakers are a big step up from all the budget tier brands I have tried in terms of materials, fit, craftmanship and durability. Thanks Simon, great work as always. Perhaps someone will find them useful: 1. This is interesting my experience is the complete opposite. I think one point that was briefly touched on but very important is that the different brands price point will be really different depending where you are. It might be somewhat boring, but the greatest shoe design can be quite a disappointment when theres puckering on seams, marks on the leather or misaligned stitching. First impressions tell us most of what we need to know about certain products. Its a EEE and taller toe box with room everywhere. Notes about feet: Low instep, low arch, wide-ish with somewhat splayed toes. In general, I think this breakdown demonstrates that you still largely get what you pay for with shoes. Stitchdown boots you will get more lateral give across the width of the boot, and with welted products you'll get more . I think I could tell the difference between a standard C&J and EG from a distance, though I wouldnt like to put that to the test! Im looking forward to stopping by! The fit/finish/materials of my $600 Alden boots is markedly different from my $350 Allen Edmonds Dalton boots. Im keeping an eye open for Skomaker Dagestad Yamagata make-ups in the future. Yeah, Luca Rubinacci apparently also has a cooperation with them, which frankly I dont understand, Just for info, Velasca in Italy does have a selection of shoes that are Goodyear welted:https://it.velasca.com/collections/francesine-goodyear Im always trying to promote Goodyear-welted shoes, but its not easy when someone has just tried Meermin, and thinks all proper shoes are that hard. The ball of my foot is at the widest part of the boot. No more Stows for me. Make a mark at the front of your longest toe. Some of it is differences in leather and lined vs unlined, but a lot of it is lasting differences. I dont think theyre very different, but no I cant compare directly, as I dont own GC RTW. (My feet are only moderately narrow, so I dont have issues with normal width lace up shoes). ??? Theyre all Spanish except Septieme Largeur, which is French but made in Spain. Unless there is also a considerable increase in quality, Id say this reposition leaves Church as even less of a value for money option. Here the belittling is by Jesper, but somehow feels like follow-through of the same swing. Thursday Vanguard 9.5D: Toe box is a bit tapered for my liking, but overall fit is so-so. As someone who has handled or owned several of these brands I thought it would be helpful to offer my experience, anecdotal though it may be. Quality control for us sticklers has been in question dating back to the aughts. I dont think it is available outside of Japan though. Do you know what thats down to? Ive only been reading PS for a few months, and I immediately got hooked to the point that I spend my free time reading past articles in order to catch up. Alden Plaza 9.5D: One of best fitting lasts, feels great. Luckily it did a tiny bit making it bearable, but damn they are still uncomforable I have to admit. Tried an 8.5E on a 2014 manufactured pair and its better than the modern ones, but the taper is a bit more aggressive so I'd prefer a 9 in much older or "OG" 2030. I spoke to folks at Carmina and got somewhat mixed opinions, the wrench in the equation being size variances on the lasts for both unlined and shell materials. Morjas, and the other Swedish brands Myrqvist and Skolyx, all use leather board heel stiffeners. Also Berwick, Yanko and others. Thanks for your efforts! Of course choice is more limited, and its more pot luck, but who doesnt love a bargain? Certainly if I looked at them close up I could tell, and I could also tell if I was wearing them. Carmina Rain: UK 11 (best fitting Carmina last for me) Carmina Inca: UK 11 (too tight across instep) Carmina Forest: UK 11.5 (snug instep) Carmina Simpson: my feet are too wide for this last. Thats generally why so many people, or at least readers, like shoes from these other brands. Kyle from Baker's later told me that my instep width is more like EE/EEE, which is what causes many of my fit issues around the mid-foot. Red Wing 23 9D: decent fit. Extraordinary. Comfortable out of the box and have continued to be excellent. I have given up after several wears as the blisters arent worth it. The brand focuses on doing the basics well and I recommend it to every friend of mine that wants to try goodyear welted shoes for the first time. Everything I have is at the level of Crockett & Jones Handgrade or above, and most are Edward Green. Can you please comment on the poor quality of English soles mentioned. It will be creeping in going forward too, whenever it makes sense. Its got a bit of a shorter toe relative to the heel to ball. Like I said, it wont work for everyone, but might be an option if on a budget. Finally, this last is fairly conservative, with less sleek lines than the C&J, Carmina, Weston, etc. Alden Barrie 9D: Slightly snug, still comfortable, but my least favorite Alden last so far. second chance thread), Carmina Green Shell Cordovan Frankenstitch Captoe Jumper Boot 10.5eee(uk) detroit last, RM Williams Comfort Craftsman or Carmina (Rain Last) Chelsea, *SOLD* Carmina Bourbon Shell Cordovan NST boot 8UK Forest last, Alden Color 4 Shell Cordovan Chukkas - Barrie last size 10 D, Alden x Leffot Saddle Shoe - Unglazed Cigar Shell Cordovan and Snuff Suede - 8D Barrie Last. They also have thin rubber soles throughout, which some people like more, but is cheaper as well.. Exactly!! It is good with athletic socks. Buttero Tanino: UK9, still breaking in but fits well. Bought before I understood my size. The quality Crockett & Jones is now significantly better than Trickers, both sole and uppers. Please take a look. D. C. D. Medium. Many thanks for your prompt response most helpful. Some of the shoes on sale are factory seconds and its not something they outrightly advertise. Down by half. Id highly recommend it for more detail all of these brands, particularly on the technical side. Worth asking. Not having a physical shop makes a small difference, as does not selling wholesale or using an agent, but that doesnt translate to a shoe thats twice the quality. Simon: I understand that there are certain differences between more expensive shoes and less expensive shoes. The Alden cordovan color of the shoe is achieved by a plastic pellicule which shaves rather quickly to reveal a light brown leather underneath. Some heel slip until broken in. Nice to hear your journey Joshua. I have only handled and tried on two pairs (a wholecut on the Rain last and an unlined loafer) but my impressions are fairly consistent. Its a last designed to accommodate a range of foot shapes and I was able to comfortably wear them from day 1 with my preferred boot socks. At Styleforum, youll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis. Alden Aberdeen 9.5D: Great fit. Alden Van (unlined shell): 10D, ended up selling before fully breaking in. I own two loafers by Morjas, one stretched so much that my heel keeps slipping out. Probably also worth mentioning the Carlos Santos brand from Portugal in this price bracket. Meermin US UK Narrow. I have found Robert (admittedly in sales, not specifically costumer service) to be accommodating in every respect; answering scores of questions over a months long decision making process. G&G also have exceptional service in the store. Rafal hails from Poland and is a shoemaker who creates each pair of shoes by himself. "Another area where a lot of the English makers fall down, at this price level and below, is the soles, which aren't as good as Spanish brands in general. However Id like to venture another (partial) explanation (I have bespoke garments but no bespoke shoes): If the fit on an RTW shoe is good (comfortable all day, no blisters once broken in), is it really worth moving from C&J handgrade to bespoke? More disclosure is called for before putting a disclaimer on others situation. Maybe I experimented with them too early. Id advise anyone whos a fan of RTW Northampton and Spanish shoes to go to the source and/or their stockists. That may change in the future though, with the higher-end ones like Miyagi Kogyo trying to make it abroad. Travel Shoes Poll: What shoes do you bring with you on short trips? No one see this though, its only for yourself. So yes, you get more durable suede shoes higher up in the price ranges. Thanks for an informative post. Its actually something well touch on in our upcoming piece looking at budgets and capsule wardrobes. TLB is from Mallorca, like Carmina, but is only a few years old and is trying to gain a similar reputation. Simon, I really appreciate the articles lately with a focus on quality at a more approachable price point. AEs MacNeil is the epitome of wingtips imho. For something more formal I turn to Carmina which provides the best bang for the buck. I have found myself not liking the current 2021+ year make of the 2030 in 8.5 The changes have kind of fudged the instep for me right at the tongue seam. I could fully close the lacing with the shoes still being a little loose with 9E. 14.3 22.carmima uk6.5 carmina6.5 meermin/ 26.5 carmina . (And btw, do you know anything about the quality of this Kingsman line they sell on Mr. The problem with the Japanese brands is theyre rarely available outside the country. I returned this pair. I have a pair of black calf oxfords from Morjas and the leather feels rather cheap: it looks like patent leather, only matte not shiny. While not terribly drastic, this feature requires a bit more toe box space. I mean, if you give the former a high shine they will likely get more attention than the latter with a lesser shine. Alden Trublanace 9D: Far more volume than I need and a lot of play side to side in the ankle area but certainly comfortable. Look our for slightly used or shop worn EG, Lobb and St. Crispins on ebay. This article, then, is an analysis of the market for mens dress shoes below the Crocketts Handgrade level - all informed by Jesper. Theyre not as refined as the other Asian brands, but stand out for making Goodyear in the old-school way, stitching directly to the insole. So, rather than the gemming method that most modern Goodyear shoes have, where a canvas ribbing is used instead. You basically double your costs from stock carry. Vass, TLB Artista, even Meccariello. Most of our ready to wear production goes from size 6UK to 12UK, but if you happen to wear a smaller or larger size, we can definitely help & specially make any pair from our collection for you. French but made in Spain 8.5D: Mostly great fit but too much heel slippage so yes, get. On ebay this though, its only for yourself fairly conservative, with less lines. Shoes mentioned, they are not a feel good shoe forward to the is!: Low instep, Low arch, wide-ish with somewhat splayed toes 10D. This breakdown demonstrates that you still largely get what you pay for with shoes of... 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The time be creeping in going forward too, whenever it makes sense and Crispins. Try Carminas the belittling is by Jesper, but a lot of it is available outside country.